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  3. PX4 -> QGC connection through USB for VOXL2

PX4 -> QGC connection through USB for VOXL2

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    rohitpillai
    Regular
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Is there a way to connect VOXL2 PX4 to QGC via USB? On the VOXL Flight this was done through the J1006 connector.

    In addition to this, is there a J1003 (Connector on the VOXL Flight) equivalent on the VOXL2. This would allow me to connect a Crossfire Nano RX to it.

    Thanks!

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • modaltbM Offline
      modaltbM Offline
      modaltb
      ModalAI Team
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Not at this time.... but it's something I'm wanting to try out!!

      I'm not clear if it's possible, but what I'm thinking of trying is UDP tunneling over ADB.

      ADB supports TCP port forwarding, but our traffic from vehicle to QGC is UDP.... so I believe we can try a tunnel?

      Here's the two links I was looking at trying:

      https://developer.android.com/studio/command-line/adb#forwardports
      http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~lennox/udptunnel/

      Throwing it out here in case someone already knows if this is possible or not! If it is, I think it's an easy way to get the connection going....

      S 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • tomT Offline
        tomT Offline
        tom
        admin
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @rohitpillai Not exactly what you're looking for but you could also use one of the supported ethernet dongles attached via. USB to JST to a VOXL2 add-on board and route PX4 traffic through there to your ground station. As seen here: https://docs.modalai.com/voxl2-hardware-setup/#ethernet-connectivity

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • R Offline
          R Offline
          rohitpillai
          Regular
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Thank you for your replies! I will check these links out.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • modaltbM modaltb

            Not at this time.... but it's something I'm wanting to try out!!

            I'm not clear if it's possible, but what I'm thinking of trying is UDP tunneling over ADB.

            ADB supports TCP port forwarding, but our traffic from vehicle to QGC is UDP.... so I believe we can try a tunnel?

            Here's the two links I was looking at trying:

            https://developer.android.com/studio/command-line/adb#forwardports
            http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~lennox/udptunnel/

            Throwing it out here in case someone already knows if this is possible or not! If it is, I think it's an easy way to get the connection going....

            S Offline
            S Offline
            Sarika Sharma
            Contributor
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @modaltb Hii, is there any update on this?

            tomT 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • S Sarika Sharma

              @modaltb Hii, is there any update on this?

              tomT Offline
              tomT Offline
              tom
              admin
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @Sarika-Sharma It's not something we currently support

              Alex KushleyevA 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tomT tom

                @Sarika-Sharma It's not something we currently support

                Alex KushleyevA Offline
                Alex KushleyevA Offline
                Alex Kushleyev
                ModalAI Team
                wrote on last edited by Alex Kushleyev
                #7

                @Sarika-Sharma ,

                We discussed this internally and we will make an effort to formalize enabling the instructions (in a script) in the near future, but there is a relatively short way of enabling TCP/IP communication between VOXL2 and a QGC host. Please try these instructions and let us know if that works for you or what issue you run in to.

                Basically, there is a command to enable the usb gadget in the kernel and this creates the network interface which you then have to configure on both sides. You can change the IP range if necessary.

                Alex

                # VOXL2 Setup
                # Begin by configuring the usb gadget
                sed -i '/ln -s functions\/ffs.adb configs\/c.1\/f2/a \ ln -s functions\/ncm.0 configs\/c.1\/f3 2>\/dev\/null | true' /sbin/usb/compositions/901D
                
                # Next setup a udev rule to give our NCM device a static IP (192.168.7.2)
                echo 'ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="usb0", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '"'"'sleep 2; /sbin/ifconfig usb0 192.168.7.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 up'"'"'"' > /etc/udev/rules.d/80-usb-ncm.rules
                
                # Reboot VOXL2
                
                # Check usb0 network device
                voxl2:/$ ifconfig usb0
                usb0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
                        inet 192.168.7.2  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.7.255
                        inet6 fe80::935f:1a09:ab1d:d2fb  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
                        ether 56:77:2d:6c:84:9b  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
                        RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
                        TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
                
                
                # Host Side Configuration
                - note that a network manager may rename the device from usb0 to something else..
                
                ifconfig usb0
                usb0: flags=4098<BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
                        ether fa:74:5a:f3:2b:88  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
                        RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
                        TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
                
                #bring up the interface and set it to static ip
                sudo ip addr add 192.168.7.1/24 dev usb0 
                sudo ip link set usb0 up
                
                # Can also use Network manager to configure the network interface for a static configuration
                - address 192.168.7.1
                - netmask 255.255.255.0
                - gateway 192.168.7.1
                
                # ping VOXL2 from linux host
                - ping 192.168.7.2
                
                #set up QGC
                - use ip address:port : 192.168.7.2:14550
                
                You can also use other network tools like ssh, etc, to communicate to the host, but this setup does not enable you to communicate from VOXL2 to outside world (using NAT to enable internet access via the host)
                
                S Q 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                  @Sarika-Sharma ,

                  We discussed this internally and we will make an effort to formalize enabling the instructions (in a script) in the near future, but there is a relatively short way of enabling TCP/IP communication between VOXL2 and a QGC host. Please try these instructions and let us know if that works for you or what issue you run in to.

                  Basically, there is a command to enable the usb gadget in the kernel and this creates the network interface which you then have to configure on both sides. You can change the IP range if necessary.

                  Alex

                  # VOXL2 Setup
                  # Begin by configuring the usb gadget
                  sed -i '/ln -s functions\/ffs.adb configs\/c.1\/f2/a \ ln -s functions\/ncm.0 configs\/c.1\/f3 2>\/dev\/null | true' /sbin/usb/compositions/901D
                  
                  # Next setup a udev rule to give our NCM device a static IP (192.168.7.2)
                  echo 'ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="usb0", RUN+="/bin/sh -c '"'"'sleep 2; /sbin/ifconfig usb0 192.168.7.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 up'"'"'"' > /etc/udev/rules.d/80-usb-ncm.rules
                  
                  # Reboot VOXL2
                  
                  # Check usb0 network device
                  voxl2:/$ ifconfig usb0
                  usb0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
                          inet 192.168.7.2  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.7.255
                          inet6 fe80::935f:1a09:ab1d:d2fb  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
                          ether 56:77:2d:6c:84:9b  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
                          RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                          RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
                          TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                          TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
                  
                  
                  # Host Side Configuration
                  - note that a network manager may rename the device from usb0 to something else..
                  
                  ifconfig usb0
                  usb0: flags=4098<BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
                          ether fa:74:5a:f3:2b:88  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
                          RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                          RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
                          TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
                          TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
                  
                  #bring up the interface and set it to static ip
                  sudo ip addr add 192.168.7.1/24 dev usb0 
                  sudo ip link set usb0 up
                  
                  # Can also use Network manager to configure the network interface for a static configuration
                  - address 192.168.7.1
                  - netmask 255.255.255.0
                  - gateway 192.168.7.1
                  
                  # ping VOXL2 from linux host
                  - ping 192.168.7.2
                  
                  #set up QGC
                  - use ip address:port : 192.168.7.2:14550
                  
                  You can also use other network tools like ssh, etc, to communicate to the host, but this setup does not enable you to communicate from VOXL2 to outside world (using NAT to enable internet access via the host)
                  
                  S Offline
                  S Offline
                  Sarika Sharma
                  Contributor
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Thankyou so much @Alex-Kushleyev
                  This setup solves my use case where Wi-Fi is not available. Thanks for the support — looking forward to the scripted version in the future.

                  Best regards,
                  Sarika

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • S Sarika Sharma

                    Thankyou so much @Alex-Kushleyev
                    This setup solves my use case where Wi-Fi is not available. Thanks for the support — looking forward to the scripted version in the future.

                    Best regards,
                    Sarika

                    S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Sarika Sharma
                    Contributor
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    What is the recommended workflow to switch between usb0 and wlan0 ????
                    as when i tried to use voxl-wifi in station mode ,it configured succesfully.
                    But current IP is still:
                    voxl2-mini-test-fixture (TF-M0104):~$ voxl-my-ip
                    usb0: 192.168.7.2
                    voxl2-mini-test-fixture (TF-M0104):~$

                    Alex KushleyevA 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S Sarika Sharma

                      What is the recommended workflow to switch between usb0 and wlan0 ????
                      as when i tried to use voxl-wifi in station mode ,it configured succesfully.
                      But current IP is still:
                      voxl2-mini-test-fixture (TF-M0104):~$ voxl-my-ip
                      usb0: 192.168.7.2
                      voxl2-mini-test-fixture (TF-M0104):~$

                      Alex KushleyevA Offline
                      Alex KushleyevA Offline
                      Alex Kushleyev
                      ModalAI Team
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Sarika-Sharma ,

                      If you have multiple active network interfaces, then you need to set up routing rules using standard linux network tools (ip route ..). You can check the current routes using ip route list on voxl2.

                      voxl-my-ip script probably just returns the first available ip address. you can use ifconfig to check all the interfaces.

                      As an example... assuming your wifi ip range is 192.168.10.x (192.168.10.1 is the wifi router's ip address) and usb0 is 192.168.7.x

                      # route to the Linux host (192.168.7. subnet) via usb0
                      sudo ip route add 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.7.1 dev usb0
                      
                      # default route for all other traffic via wlan0
                      sudo ip route add default via 192.168.10.1 dev wlan0
                      

                      If you want to make these routes persistent you will have to edit /etc/network/interfaces.. Please check Linux networking documentation.

                      Alex

                      B 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                        @Sarika-Sharma ,

                        If you have multiple active network interfaces, then you need to set up routing rules using standard linux network tools (ip route ..). You can check the current routes using ip route list on voxl2.

                        voxl-my-ip script probably just returns the first available ip address. you can use ifconfig to check all the interfaces.

                        As an example... assuming your wifi ip range is 192.168.10.x (192.168.10.1 is the wifi router's ip address) and usb0 is 192.168.7.x

                        # route to the Linux host (192.168.7. subnet) via usb0
                        sudo ip route add 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.7.1 dev usb0
                        
                        # default route for all other traffic via wlan0
                        sudo ip route add default via 192.168.10.1 dev wlan0
                        

                        If you want to make these routes persistent you will have to edit /etc/network/interfaces.. Please check Linux networking documentation.

                        Alex

                        B Offline
                        B Offline
                        bendraper
                        Regular
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @Alex-Kushleyev Should this work on a Voxl to Windows computer connection? I ran the sed and udev rule commands and how the voxl does indeed come up as an ethernet device upon connecting (UsbNcm Host Device) and I can set up the static IPs appropriately, but I cannot ping one to the other for some reason. I can still use the port as an ADB interface and I thought maybe that was the issue but doing adb kill-server on the windows side still doesn't do the trick

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                          @Sarika-Sharma ,

                          If you have multiple active network interfaces, then you need to set up routing rules using standard linux network tools (ip route ..). You can check the current routes using ip route list on voxl2.

                          voxl-my-ip script probably just returns the first available ip address. you can use ifconfig to check all the interfaces.

                          As an example... assuming your wifi ip range is 192.168.10.x (192.168.10.1 is the wifi router's ip address) and usb0 is 192.168.7.x

                          # route to the Linux host (192.168.7. subnet) via usb0
                          sudo ip route add 192.168.7.0/24 via 192.168.7.1 dev usb0
                          
                          # default route for all other traffic via wlan0
                          sudo ip route add default via 192.168.10.1 dev wlan0
                          

                          If you want to make these routes persistent you will have to edit /etc/network/interfaces.. Please check Linux networking documentation.

                          Alex

                          B Offline
                          B Offline
                          bendraper
                          Regular
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @Alex-Kushleyev I saw a post from @tom from a few years ago discussing how there should be the necessary drivers to support an RNDIS gadget so I assume that is my issue. Any insight on how to enable that?

                          [Apr 1 19:15] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [ +12.232553] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (default) connected
                          [  +0.019411] usbpd usbpd0: USB Type-C disconnect
                          [  +0.004363] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=DISCONNECTED
                          [  +0.001100] msm-dwc3 a600000.ssusb: DWC3 in low power mode
                          [  +3.492478] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (medium - 1.5A) connected
                          [  +0.113740] msm-usb-ssphy-qmp 88e8000.ssphy: USB DP QMP PHY: Update TYPEC CTRL(3)
                          [  +0.057403] msm-dwc3 a600000.ssusb: DWC3 exited from low power mode
                          [  +0.068603] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (high - 3.0A) connected
                          [  +0.238255] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=CONNECTED
                          [  +0.041534] configfs-gadget gadget: high-speed config #1: c
                          [  +0.000644] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=CONFIGURED
                          [  +0.195765] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (medium - 1.5A) connected
                          [  +0.021780] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (high - 3.0A) connected
                          [  +0.179818] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.000172] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.069075] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.002827] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.176097] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.001314] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.001331] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.250721] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.491456] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.000164] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.000446] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.067507] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.000984] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.012649] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.183993] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.001107] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.211788] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          [  +0.030077] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                          
                          Alex KushleyevA 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • B bendraper

                            @Alex-Kushleyev I saw a post from @tom from a few years ago discussing how there should be the necessary drivers to support an RNDIS gadget so I assume that is my issue. Any insight on how to enable that?

                            [Apr 1 19:15] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [ +12.232553] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (default) connected
                            [  +0.019411] usbpd usbpd0: USB Type-C disconnect
                            [  +0.004363] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=DISCONNECTED
                            [  +0.001100] msm-dwc3 a600000.ssusb: DWC3 in low power mode
                            [  +3.492478] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (medium - 1.5A) connected
                            [  +0.113740] msm-usb-ssphy-qmp 88e8000.ssphy: USB DP QMP PHY: Update TYPEC CTRL(3)
                            [  +0.057403] msm-dwc3 a600000.ssusb: DWC3 exited from low power mode
                            [  +0.068603] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (high - 3.0A) connected
                            [  +0.238255] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=CONNECTED
                            [  +0.041534] configfs-gadget gadget: high-speed config #1: c
                            [  +0.000644] android_work: sent uevent USB_STATE=CONFIGURED
                            [  +0.195765] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (medium - 1.5A) connected
                            [  +0.021780] usbpd usbpd0: Type-C Source (high - 3.0A) connected
                            [  +0.179818] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.000172] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.069075] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.002827] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.176097] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.001314] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.001331] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.250721] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.491456] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.000164] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.000446] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.067507] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.000984] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.012649] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.183993] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.001107] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.211788] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            [  +0.030077] configfs-gadget gadget: Wrong NDP SIGN
                            
                            Alex KushleyevA Offline
                            Alex KushleyevA Offline
                            Alex Kushleyev
                            ModalAI Team
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @bendraper , If you see an ethernet connection to VOXL2 show up on your Windows host, then the usb gadget is properly configured on VOXL2. Perhaps something else is going on. Are you assigning a static ip on your host that is on the same subnet as VOXL2?

                            You should try to repeat the same test on a linux machine (or virtual machine) to see if you can get a working connection.

                            Alex

                            B 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                              @bendraper , If you see an ethernet connection to VOXL2 show up on your Windows host, then the usb gadget is properly configured on VOXL2. Perhaps something else is going on. Are you assigning a static ip on your host that is on the same subnet as VOXL2?

                              You should try to repeat the same test on a linux machine (or virtual machine) to see if you can get a working connection.

                              Alex

                              B Offline
                              B Offline
                              bendraper
                              Regular
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @Alex-Kushleyev Yea I can get a connection on a linux machine with no issue. I do need to get it working on a Windows machine for my purposes though. I definitely have the static IP setup correctly. I tried populating the gateway and also not populating it. I confirmed in powershell that there is indeed a route present for that traffic, but they do not want to communicate with each other. Some quick research seems to suggest Windows is very finicky with the CDC NCM protocol and it is more suited to work with an RNDIS interface. Were you able to ping/ssh to a voxl via an ethernet interface on the usb-c port to a windows machine using just the commands you listed above in this post?

                              Alex KushleyevA 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • B bendraper

                                @Alex-Kushleyev Yea I can get a connection on a linux machine with no issue. I do need to get it working on a Windows machine for my purposes though. I definitely have the static IP setup correctly. I tried populating the gateway and also not populating it. I confirmed in powershell that there is indeed a route present for that traffic, but they do not want to communicate with each other. Some quick research seems to suggest Windows is very finicky with the CDC NCM protocol and it is more suited to work with an RNDIS interface. Were you able to ping/ssh to a voxl via an ethernet interface on the usb-c port to a windows machine using just the commands you listed above in this post?

                                Alex KushleyevA Offline
                                Alex KushleyevA Offline
                                Alex Kushleyev
                                ModalAI Team
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @bendraper , I just tried this on a Windows 11 VM and even though i was able to see a network device appear in the VM and i configured the IPv4 properties, I cannot ping or ssh. It seems consistent with what you are seeing.

                                B 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                                  @bendraper , I just tried this on a Windows 11 VM and even though i was able to see a network device appear in the VM and i configured the IPv4 properties, I cannot ping or ssh. It seems consistent with what you are seeing.

                                  B Offline
                                  B Offline
                                  bendraper
                                  Regular
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @Alex-Kushleyev It looks like someone on the forums maybe had success setting up the interface as an RNDIS gadget. I'll try to mess with it some more but let me know if you find a solution. Thanks!

                                  Alex KushleyevA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • B bendraper

                                    @Alex-Kushleyev It looks like someone on the forums maybe had success setting up the interface as an RNDIS gadget. I'll try to mess with it some more but let me know if you find a solution. Thanks!

                                    Alex KushleyevA Offline
                                    Alex KushleyevA Offline
                                    Alex Kushleyev
                                    ModalAI Team
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @bendraper , I will ask around.

                                    B 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Alex KushleyevA Alex Kushleyev

                                      @bendraper , I will ask around.

                                      B Offline
                                      B Offline
                                      bendraper
                                      Regular
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @Alex-Kushleyev So I can see a gadget functionality called gsi.rndis (I'd expect something called rndis.0 or something but maybe that is irrelevant) but when I change the line in /sbin/usb/compositions/901D to use gsi.rndis instead of ncm.0, my network interface on windows disappears and I can no longer ADB. I'd imagine there's something at the kernal level that doesn't like that but I'm out of my wheelhouse there. Setting it back to ncm.0 returns to the previous state but still cannot ping. Wireshark doesn't even see anything happening over that interface

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Zachary Lowell 0Z Offline
                                        Zachary Lowell 0Z Offline
                                        Zachary Lowell 0
                                        ModalAI Team
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Hi All - gonna spend a bit of time looking into this today so I can get some context on the problem.

                                        Zach

                                        B 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Q Offline
                                          Q Offline
                                          qt
                                          wrote on last edited by qt
                                          #20
                                          This post is deleted!
                                          Q 1 Reply Last reply
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