M0181 Pin Out and Electrical Diagram
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Hi @Nando75
Yes, that is a fundamental limit of ALL uCoax that is not Twinax Impedance controlled conductors. Therefor all IPEX, Hirose, Molex, TE, etc (you name it) coax will fundamentally be limited in performance compared to true 100-ohm differential controlled impedance you can get from flex circuits or Samtec's Twinax. It is one of the many tradeoffs in our design space we need to make. As such, that is why we are firm on keeping the coax short and we do not sell any option longer than 180mm since at some point that small impedance offset and tolerances between two 50-ohm conductors compared to a true coupled 100-ohm may play a role.Hope this helps you.
Thanks!Thanks, @Vinny, for your help.
Just to confirm, you're suggesting that an IPEX cable assembly like this one (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/i-pex/81457-100B-02-D/22108838?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=203759898&gbraid=0AAAAADrbLljG_0DgosYmSjn-L6wfiInDx&gclid=CjwKCAjwxrLHBhA2EiwAu9EdMyI0xVm4X54JIAOikP3zqiHT_KgnCN1m9s6Gd_ba0VRVhewe2lowKxoCYHAQAvD_BwE), with a length of 200mm (slightly longer than your suggested 180mm), could work if each line of the differential pair is carried over a separate coaxial cable.
Regards,
Fernando
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Thanks, @Vinny, for your help.
Just to confirm, you're suggesting that an IPEX cable assembly like this one (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/i-pex/81457-100B-02-D/22108838?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=203759898&gbraid=0AAAAADrbLljG_0DgosYmSjn-L6wfiInDx&gclid=CjwKCAjwxrLHBhA2EiwAu9EdMyI0xVm4X54JIAOikP3zqiHT_KgnCN1m9s6Gd_ba0VRVhewe2lowKxoCYHAQAvD_BwE), with a length of 200mm (slightly longer than your suggested 180mm), could work if each line of the differential pair is carried over a separate coaxial cable.
Regards,
Fernando
Hi @Nando75
If it was less than 200mm, yes. 200mm is at your own risk, and make sure your SW team knows how to reach out and request slower MIPI CLK speeds in the event of signal integrity failures (camera failures).
Keep us posted.
Thanks! -
Hi @Nando75
If it was less than 200mm, yes. 200mm is at your own risk, and make sure your SW team knows how to reach out and request slower MIPI CLK speeds in the event of signal integrity failures (camera failures).
Keep us posted.
Thanks! -
@Vinny , and what about using this kind of flex cable https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/jae-electronics/JF08R0R051040UA/9477713 ?
It is supposed that it has an impedance of 100 ohms between pairsThanks in advance,
FernandoHi @Nando75
A shielded, impedance-controlled flex was our go-to solution in the early days, and we still offer a few legacy adapters that use it. These provide excellent signal integrity and EMI shielding. However, they’re limited in deployment flexibility; each flex must be meticulously designed for a specific routing path.Coax, on the other hand, greatly improves routing versatility and can be deployed across many platforms. The trade-off is reduced signal distance and slightly degraded signal integrity compared to a tuned flex.
Ultimately, it’s a system-level tradeoff. We’ve transitioned to coax as our mainstream solution in recent years, driven by customer demand for easier installation without the constraints of custom flex circuits.
Only your team can decide what's more important and hopefully we can enable you either way.
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Hi @Nando75
A shielded, impedance-controlled flex was our go-to solution in the early days, and we still offer a few legacy adapters that use it. These provide excellent signal integrity and EMI shielding. However, they’re limited in deployment flexibility; each flex must be meticulously designed for a specific routing path.Coax, on the other hand, greatly improves routing versatility and can be deployed across many platforms. The trade-off is reduced signal distance and slightly degraded signal integrity compared to a tuned flex.
Ultimately, it’s a system-level tradeoff. We’ve transitioned to coax as our mainstream solution in recent years, driven by customer demand for easier installation without the constraints of custom flex circuits.
Only your team can decide what's more important and hopefully we can enable you either way.
We are moving forward with JAE Electronics flex cables.
Regarding the pinout for the Camera Connectors, I have a question about the MIPI Lanes. We intend to connect the IR and Visible MIPI lanes from the HADRON 640 to the VOXL2. Additionally, we will connect the I2C lines to control the camera.
My primary question is: Can I utilize only one camera group, or will two camera groups be necessary? If a single camera group is feasible, I plan to use one 51-pin Flexible Cable (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/jae-electronics/JF08R0R051040UA/9477713) to connect our breakout board to an adapter PCB for the Hirose connector.
This information is crucial for us to begin the schematic design.
Regards,
Fernando
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We are moving forward with JAE Electronics flex cables.
Regarding the pinout for the Camera Connectors, I have a question about the MIPI Lanes. We intend to connect the IR and Visible MIPI lanes from the HADRON 640 to the VOXL2. Additionally, we will connect the I2C lines to control the camera.
My primary question is: Can I utilize only one camera group, or will two camera groups be necessary? If a single camera group is feasible, I plan to use one 51-pin Flexible Cable (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/jae-electronics/JF08R0R051040UA/9477713) to connect our breakout board to an adapter PCB for the Hirose connector.
This information is crucial for us to begin the schematic design.
Regards,
Fernando
Hi @Nando75
For the Boson portion of the Hadron, you need a 2L MIPI CSI config and for the EO portion you need a full 4-L MIPI CSI port, so you will be consuming an entire "Camera Group" from VOXL 2 for this.
You will want to assign the "lower" group to the Boson Portion in 2L mode and the full 4L "upper" group to the EO portion such that our SW matches up easily. Here are some mapping tables we constructed early on for this you can use as a guide (color based mapping, so hopefully that comes through OK).
However, please double check this and also let us know when you are ready for a SCH review. Tag me again on the Forum when you are ready, then I can email you at the address used for your Forum registration so you can share your SCH with me for a review.
Hope this helped!
Thanks! -
Hi @Nando75
For the Boson portion of the Hadron, you need a 2L MIPI CSI config and for the EO portion you need a full 4-L MIPI CSI port, so you will be consuming an entire "Camera Group" from VOXL 2 for this.
You will want to assign the "lower" group to the Boson Portion in 2L mode and the full 4L "upper" group to the EO portion such that our SW matches up easily. Here are some mapping tables we constructed early on for this you can use as a guide (color based mapping, so hopefully that comes through OK).
However, please double check this and also let us know when you are ready for a SCH review. Tag me again on the Forum when you are ready, then I can email you at the address used for your Forum registration so you can share your SCH with me for a review.
Hope this helped!
Thanks! -
Hi @Nando75
For the Boson portion of the Hadron, you need a 2L MIPI CSI config and for the EO portion you need a full 4-L MIPI CSI port, so you will be consuming an entire "Camera Group" from VOXL 2 for this.
You will want to assign the "lower" group to the Boson Portion in 2L mode and the full 4L "upper" group to the EO portion such that our SW matches up easily. Here are some mapping tables we constructed early on for this you can use as a guide (color based mapping, so hopefully that comes through OK).
However, please double check this and also let us know when you are ready for a SCH review. Tag me again on the Forum when you are ready, then I can email you at the address used for your Forum registration so you can share your SCH with me for a review.
Hope this helped!
Thanks!@Vinny I'm also creating my own adapter board to replaces M0181 adapter that connects the Hadron 640 to a 400mm 51-pin Flexible Cable and then connects to the VOXL2 J7 connector. Can I also send you my schematic for you to review? Thank you in advance.
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@Vinny I'm also creating my own adapter board to replaces M0181 adapter that connects the Hadron 640 to a 400mm 51-pin Flexible Cable and then connects to the VOXL2 J7 connector. Can I also send you my schematic for you to review? Thank you in advance.
Hi @SDSU_Drones
You bet.... emailing you now!
Thanks!
Vinny -
Hi @SDSU_Drones
You bet.... emailing you now!
Thanks!
Vinny@SDSU_Drones
Just to close this out, I emailed you a review report. Hope that helps you along your way.Thanks!
Vinny -
@SDSU_Drones
Just to close this out, I emailed you a review report. Hope that helps you along your way.Thanks!
Vinny@Vinny Is J8 still not supported? I'm looking at using a hadron and two M0166 sensors, which may not be possible without J8.
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@Vinny Is J8 still not supported? I'm looking at using a hadron and two M0166 sensors, which may not be possible without J8.
@Dan-Jennings , M0181 can be used to enable a Boson and another hires or tracking camera (or Hadron combo), see diagram below. You would need to use the kernal variant 1.0.1 (same one used for M0173, which I am assuming you are already using).
So basically, you can use any standard config C26-C29 + two more cameras connected to VOXL2 J8. Please note that VOXL2 J8 shares CCI (i2c) buses with J6 and J7, so you have to be a little careful about what cameras you connect to J8 to avoid i2c address conflicts. I am going to put together some more information on that soon. But if you are adding a Hadron or Boson + IMX412 to J8, there will be no conflict.
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Alex
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